I, for one, am thrilled to see a substack devoted to the resurrection of Kit Marlowe. I can only imagine how full your plate is right now, Ros, and as a longtime fan of your work, I'm saddened that you were subjected to addressing someone's grievances on the first day of your new endeavor. Nevertheless... from one who has been studying the Authorship Question since the fall of 1968, when, as a theatre major at the University of California-Santa Barbara, my drama professor handed me a copy of a book entitled "The Murder of the Man Who Was Shakespeare" by Calvin Hoffman... kudos to you for launching it!
Hi John, I was introduced to Hoffman’s book by a Cal Poly professor at about the same time. l’ve been interested in the SAT for a long time. Best, Suzanne
Hi John. Where are you located? Are you an actor or theater professor? After many years teaching from one end of the country to another (Hawaii to NYC) I live up in Fresno now. But, I drive over to Paso Robles every few months for several days. If you're anywhere nearby, it would be fun to meet for coffee in SLO county, or even half-way if you're anywhere south in the SB area. A 70's trip to the Warwickshire shrines convinced me there is something rotten in the state of Stratford - and my first Stratford questions were with the so-called "historic" architecture and locations! (My academic training and research has been architecture. interior arch, design, decorative arts, art history et al; eventually adding Humanities) Since then, I have investigated many of the authorship candidates over the years, especially DeVere, and more recently Robin William's on Mary Sidney. I have learned so much in this fascinating quest ... and now that I have finally retired from teaching, authorship research has become my avocation. But I can't completely commit to Oxford (and am a member of SOF) but always return to Marlowe. I am still basically an avid student researcher looking for facts, and as a critical thinker also trying to be unbiased in my conclusions. I do think Marlowe survived the "murder" but of course do not have a full paper trail - so I'm still open to changing that informed assumption. And have learned so much from Ros, whose common sense research approach and academic work I admire and respect. Best, Suzanne
Thanks for the response, Suzanne! I live in a town at the southern end of SLO County (Nipomo), but visit the Five Cities area, mostly Arroyo Grande, regularly, and occasionally get to SLO, so we could meet there or in Paso. My BA was in theatre arts, with a minor in art history. About two-thirds of my "showbiz" career was as an actor-singer and the rest as a set and lighting designer. I had already performed in a half-dozen of Shakespeare's plays when I encountered Hoffman's book... and that led to the AQ being a longtime avocation for me, as well. My subsequent research has taken me from Oxford to lesser-known candidates such as Sidney, North, Bassano, Sackville, and a dozen or so possible co-authors, but like you, I come back to Marlowe as the most likely voice behind the plays and poems. Do you have a FaceBook account? If so, you can search on my name and private message me so that we can exchange contact info.
Thanks, John. Nipomo - The Dunes - very nice area, and so much cooler than here! I understand it has really been in developed the last 15 years. I've lived in SLO, and the North county. We seem to have a design background in common. (As a youth, I wanted to be a production and set designer in the movies ... a very closed community!) I think the initial "problem solving" aspects of the design of "anything" translate well to the research and evaluation side of the SAQ. I do have many questions about how Marlowe could have written the entire canon, so collaboration is an open question for me. The sonnets can be applied to other candidates and certainly much has been put forward with Oxford. New or proposed evidence keeps my mind a-whirl with possibilities, so my "conclusions" are in constant flux as I read new data and attempt to apply it to what I've learned. Conversing with a fellow-Marlowe-traveler in central CA is a pleasant prospect. (I'm always trying to enlist friends in SAQ discussion, but my "recruits" are only mildly interested and lean to Oxford) At the SOF conference in New Orleans, I met Elizabeth Winkler and had a lovely conversation with her, and have purchased and distributed about 6 copies of her book to others! (Ros and I met very briefly at the conference- an honor). I'm not on FB (had an account once I didn't post on, and it was hijacked and I am bizarrely blocked) I don't do social media, and barely know how to use Substack, but I'm learning the format - is there a private chat on this site? (And, I'm probably still in the phone book). For the next 72 days, I'm involved in the election as a volunteer, plus I'm going on a road trip soon, and I probably won't be down to the coast until November at the earliest. Cheers!
I'm so sorry that your first thread on "Resurrecting Kit Marlowe" was so unpleasant for you. { BTW. I read his book. Really NOT impressed with his conclusion). Anyway, sending you good thoughts and affection. Kim.
He reminds me so much of James Bond in a In Her Majesty’s Secret Service kind of way. Elizabeth was not naive. She knew fully well who to utilize, which friends to keep close and which enemies closer. Kit was by far not as the majority of literary historians would have us believe. He comes across as an excellent spy, poet and raconteur who, if he had a fault, he attracted the enmity of many would-be lords and established brigands .
He certainly seems to have attracted some enmity, but also admiration. I used to speak about his activities (when I was doing promotional work for The Marlowe Papers) as 'James Bond in a doublet and hose'. This may be overly-glamorising things but it's a fun way to think about him.
Just finished The Marlowe Papers. Fascinating read. I look forward to reading your content in this Substack. Btw, what is it about Cambridge and spies? At least in Shakespeare’s day they were working for England.
Thanks, Robert. Cambridge has a long history of spy recruitment; the brightest and best were there I suppose, so an easy, contained recruitment pool. A penchant for languages and in Marlowe's case the ability to slip between classes must have been an advantage.
Just braced myself to read The Jew of Malta with a view to comparison with Merchant of Venice. Actually I hadn’t read Merchant of Venice until this year. Both, in my view are irredeemably anti-Semitic and I don’t think Shylock’s Hath not a Jew eyes gets Shakespeare out of it. First impression of Jew of Malta was that it started well, but degenerates into caricature as Barabas’s revenge gets increasingly extreme. I note that there are strong suggestions of other contributors to the play from Act 3.
He reminds me so much of James Bond in a In Her Majesty’s Secret Service kind of way. Elizabeth was not naive. She knew fully well who to utilize, which friends to keep close and which enemies closer. Kit was by far not as the majority of literary historians would have us believe. He comes across as an excellent spy, poet and raconteur who, if he had a fault, he attracted the enmity of many would-be lords and established brigands .
So, Julian Temple last night went on about the Bad Boy Marlowe. Just a revolting rehash of gutter tripe all in the haughty English of a "file directors" authority. Ros, you have your work cut out for you. Imagine if this guy could make a film about Marlowe surviving Deptford. Of course, he'd just muck it up with his crappy bias.
Peter, you suggested I watch your YouTube presentation on the Adventures in Authorship chat. I watched it twice a few weeks ago, but am still confused as to the conclusions - probably due to the quality of the video and your time restraints to present. Have you published the thesis and evidence? Ros' suggestion that you create a substack forum for your research is a great idea! Best, Suzanne
Hi Suzanne. Thanks for the note. There are a lot of things in the works, including the third season of our podcast, soon to be video cast, with continuing analysis of the Sonnets and other issues. Yes, I have written up the thesis, but no it has not been published. There's some kind of blockage in the the Academic world regarding the AQ. I'm happy to share the paper with you and answer any questions you may have regarding the video, but maybe you would prefer to do this via email. If so, you can contact me at pbh51@earthlink.net.
Thank you, Peter and Carol. Please give me a little time and I'll investigate your podcast and sonnet research. The academic world and thoughtful peer review can be hard to penetrate if you are not currently of ranked faculty status, or emeritus, or a researcher well known to a particular academic journal. In a Marlovian/Shakespearian authorship thesis, I've missed the concluding data on how Chapman, as the rival poet in the Shake-speare sonnets, somehow proves Marlow was alive in 1598. I read several long academic essays yesterday from my digital files, and many agree that Chapman could be the rival poet. For lack of research knowledge, I am not yet convinced Marlowe wrote or co-wrote more than a few of the canonical plays but am enjoying the associated research and look forward to more information on his biographical history, and any new primary research Ros has to present in this forum. I have a lot of catch-up reading to review! Thanks for the suggestions - we'll revisit this in the fall! Best, Suzanne
Suzanne, I’m delighted with your interest and commitment to doing your own research on this very important subject. I think it would probably help you to have a copy of my essay to guide your research. I could post it on hiddeninplainsight.us for you if that helps. You would have to register first. Keep in mind that the point of the essay (and the presentation) is that the sonnets speak for themselves and make no claims for authorship of anything other than Hero and Leander and, obviously, the nine sonnets. No other claim of authorship of any other text is made by the nine sonnets. The claim of authorship made by the sonnets proceeds in a series of steps. The steps are: 1., Chapman is clearly identified by five descriptions given by the author of the sonnet sequence, 78 to 86. This description not only matches him with a high degree of specificity, it simultaneously eliminates all other possibilities. 2., Hero and Leander is clearly identified by the same sonnet sequence as the one poem written by Chapman matching the four descriptions given by the author of the sequence. 3., Sir Thomas and Lady Audrey Walsingham are clearly identified by Edward Blunt and Chapman as being recipients of Hero and Leander originally written by Christopher Marlowe and appropriated by Chapman in the year 1598. 4., The author of the sonnet sequence clearly gives five descriptions of himself identifying himself as Christopher Marlowe. This includes naming himself as one of two poets included as authors of Hero and Leander and simultaneously patronized by the Walsinghams, identifying himself as “dead”, and specifically referencing the motto on Marlowe’s Cambridge portrait twice. As Chapman clearly did not publish his additions to Hero and Leander before 1598, Christopher Marlowe, as the author complaining about that appropriation and the additions included in Chapman’s publication, necessarily must have been alive in 1598. It does not matter what other scholars say about co-authorship of other plays or poems. That is not addressed by the sonnet sequence. None of that is evidence for or against the conclusion that Marlowe was necessarily alive in 1598. Not even the Coroner’s report declaring Marlowe dead in 1593 is evidence against the sequence; in fact it is consistent with the declaration made by the living author that he is “dead”. I’m happy to continue this conversation, but I fear that our host will eventually object to having her substack used in this way. If you register in the comments section of hiddeninplainsight.us we can probe this at will. I look forward to hearing from you.
Thank you for the detailed information. I've subscribed to the podcast and will try to give it a listen while I am on a long road trip until early October. I've been very involved as a volunteer in electing a new president, and not too involved in the Authorship substacks at the moment. After the election, I will have more time to get involved in Marlowe research, and the SAQ. Best, Suzanne
In season 1 of the podcast Peter & Julian go through the evidence for Marlowe's authorship of the Rival Post sonnets in detail - 8 episodes of 30 minutes
I, for one, am thrilled to see a substack devoted to the resurrection of Kit Marlowe. I can only imagine how full your plate is right now, Ros, and as a longtime fan of your work, I'm saddened that you were subjected to addressing someone's grievances on the first day of your new endeavor. Nevertheless... from one who has been studying the Authorship Question since the fall of 1968, when, as a theatre major at the University of California-Santa Barbara, my drama professor handed me a copy of a book entitled "The Murder of the Man Who Was Shakespeare" by Calvin Hoffman... kudos to you for launching it!
Thank you, John! I'm looking forward to having a lot more fun and good conversations, from the likes of your good self, going forward.
Hi John, I was introduced to Hoffman’s book by a Cal Poly professor at about the same time. l’ve been interested in the SAT for a long time. Best, Suzanne
Hello, Suzanne. If you still reside on the Central Coast, perhaps we could get together over coffee one of these days and talk Authorship.
Hi John. Where are you located? Are you an actor or theater professor? After many years teaching from one end of the country to another (Hawaii to NYC) I live up in Fresno now. But, I drive over to Paso Robles every few months for several days. If you're anywhere nearby, it would be fun to meet for coffee in SLO county, or even half-way if you're anywhere south in the SB area. A 70's trip to the Warwickshire shrines convinced me there is something rotten in the state of Stratford - and my first Stratford questions were with the so-called "historic" architecture and locations! (My academic training and research has been architecture. interior arch, design, decorative arts, art history et al; eventually adding Humanities) Since then, I have investigated many of the authorship candidates over the years, especially DeVere, and more recently Robin William's on Mary Sidney. I have learned so much in this fascinating quest ... and now that I have finally retired from teaching, authorship research has become my avocation. But I can't completely commit to Oxford (and am a member of SOF) but always return to Marlowe. I am still basically an avid student researcher looking for facts, and as a critical thinker also trying to be unbiased in my conclusions. I do think Marlowe survived the "murder" but of course do not have a full paper trail - so I'm still open to changing that informed assumption. And have learned so much from Ros, whose common sense research approach and academic work I admire and respect. Best, Suzanne
Thanks for the response, Suzanne! I live in a town at the southern end of SLO County (Nipomo), but visit the Five Cities area, mostly Arroyo Grande, regularly, and occasionally get to SLO, so we could meet there or in Paso. My BA was in theatre arts, with a minor in art history. About two-thirds of my "showbiz" career was as an actor-singer and the rest as a set and lighting designer. I had already performed in a half-dozen of Shakespeare's plays when I encountered Hoffman's book... and that led to the AQ being a longtime avocation for me, as well. My subsequent research has taken me from Oxford to lesser-known candidates such as Sidney, North, Bassano, Sackville, and a dozen or so possible co-authors, but like you, I come back to Marlowe as the most likely voice behind the plays and poems. Do you have a FaceBook account? If so, you can search on my name and private message me so that we can exchange contact info.
Thanks, John. Nipomo - The Dunes - very nice area, and so much cooler than here! I understand it has really been in developed the last 15 years. I've lived in SLO, and the North county. We seem to have a design background in common. (As a youth, I wanted to be a production and set designer in the movies ... a very closed community!) I think the initial "problem solving" aspects of the design of "anything" translate well to the research and evaluation side of the SAQ. I do have many questions about how Marlowe could have written the entire canon, so collaboration is an open question for me. The sonnets can be applied to other candidates and certainly much has been put forward with Oxford. New or proposed evidence keeps my mind a-whirl with possibilities, so my "conclusions" are in constant flux as I read new data and attempt to apply it to what I've learned. Conversing with a fellow-Marlowe-traveler in central CA is a pleasant prospect. (I'm always trying to enlist friends in SAQ discussion, but my "recruits" are only mildly interested and lean to Oxford) At the SOF conference in New Orleans, I met Elizabeth Winkler and had a lovely conversation with her, and have purchased and distributed about 6 copies of her book to others! (Ros and I met very briefly at the conference- an honor). I'm not on FB (had an account once I didn't post on, and it was hijacked and I am bizarrely blocked) I don't do social media, and barely know how to use Substack, but I'm learning the format - is there a private chat on this site? (And, I'm probably still in the phone book). For the next 72 days, I'm involved in the election as a volunteer, plus I'm going on a road trip soon, and I probably won't be down to the coast until November at the earliest. Cheers!
I'm so sorry that your first thread on "Resurrecting Kit Marlowe" was so unpleasant for you. { BTW. I read his book. Really NOT impressed with his conclusion). Anyway, sending you good thoughts and affection. Kim.
Thank you, Kim.
He reminds me so much of James Bond in a In Her Majesty’s Secret Service kind of way. Elizabeth was not naive. She knew fully well who to utilize, which friends to keep close and which enemies closer. Kit was by far not as the majority of literary historians would have us believe. He comes across as an excellent spy, poet and raconteur who, if he had a fault, he attracted the enmity of many would-be lords and established brigands .
He certainly seems to have attracted some enmity, but also admiration. I used to speak about his activities (when I was doing promotional work for The Marlowe Papers) as 'James Bond in a doublet and hose'. This may be overly-glamorising things but it's a fun way to think about him.
There can never be enough websites about Marlowe. I‘m in!
Hi Ros! I guess I’ll move over here with my Marlowe questions. I’m excited. Hope you’re doing better this week.
Suzanne
Thanks Suzanne! Yes, this will be the place for Marlowe questions :-)
Hi there! I'm very interested in learning your new Marlowe discoveries. S
Just finished The Marlowe Papers. Fascinating read. I look forward to reading your content in this Substack. Btw, what is it about Cambridge and spies? At least in Shakespeare’s day they were working for England.
Thanks, Robert. Cambridge has a long history of spy recruitment; the brightest and best were there I suppose, so an easy, contained recruitment pool. A penchant for languages and in Marlowe's case the ability to slip between classes must have been an advantage.
Just braced myself to read The Jew of Malta with a view to comparison with Merchant of Venice. Actually I hadn’t read Merchant of Venice until this year. Both, in my view are irredeemably anti-Semitic and I don’t think Shylock’s Hath not a Jew eyes gets Shakespeare out of it. First impression of Jew of Malta was that it started well, but degenerates into caricature as Barabas’s revenge gets increasingly extreme. I note that there are strong suggestions of other contributors to the play from Act 3.
He reminds me so much of James Bond in a In Her Majesty’s Secret Service kind of way. Elizabeth was not naive. She knew fully well who to utilize, which friends to keep close and which enemies closer. Kit was by far not as the majority of literary historians would have us believe. He comes across as an excellent spy, poet and raconteur who, if he had a fault, he attracted the enmity of many would-be lords and established brigands .
So, Julian Temple last night went on about the Bad Boy Marlowe. Just a revolting rehash of gutter tripe all in the haughty English of a "file directors" authority. Ros, you have your work cut out for you. Imagine if this guy could make a film about Marlowe surviving Deptford. Of course, he'd just muck it up with his crappy bias.
Peter, you suggested I watch your YouTube presentation on the Adventures in Authorship chat. I watched it twice a few weeks ago, but am still confused as to the conclusions - probably due to the quality of the video and your time restraints to present. Have you published the thesis and evidence? Ros' suggestion that you create a substack forum for your research is a great idea! Best, Suzanne
Hi Suzanne. Thanks for the note. There are a lot of things in the works, including the third season of our podcast, soon to be video cast, with continuing analysis of the Sonnets and other issues. Yes, I have written up the thesis, but no it has not been published. There's some kind of blockage in the the Academic world regarding the AQ. I'm happy to share the paper with you and answer any questions you may have regarding the video, but maybe you would prefer to do this via email. If so, you can contact me at pbh51@earthlink.net.
Thank you, Peter and Carol. Please give me a little time and I'll investigate your podcast and sonnet research. The academic world and thoughtful peer review can be hard to penetrate if you are not currently of ranked faculty status, or emeritus, or a researcher well known to a particular academic journal. In a Marlovian/Shakespearian authorship thesis, I've missed the concluding data on how Chapman, as the rival poet in the Shake-speare sonnets, somehow proves Marlow was alive in 1598. I read several long academic essays yesterday from my digital files, and many agree that Chapman could be the rival poet. For lack of research knowledge, I am not yet convinced Marlowe wrote or co-wrote more than a few of the canonical plays but am enjoying the associated research and look forward to more information on his biographical history, and any new primary research Ros has to present in this forum. I have a lot of catch-up reading to review! Thanks for the suggestions - we'll revisit this in the fall! Best, Suzanne
Suzanne, I’m delighted with your interest and commitment to doing your own research on this very important subject. I think it would probably help you to have a copy of my essay to guide your research. I could post it on hiddeninplainsight.us for you if that helps. You would have to register first. Keep in mind that the point of the essay (and the presentation) is that the sonnets speak for themselves and make no claims for authorship of anything other than Hero and Leander and, obviously, the nine sonnets. No other claim of authorship of any other text is made by the nine sonnets. The claim of authorship made by the sonnets proceeds in a series of steps. The steps are: 1., Chapman is clearly identified by five descriptions given by the author of the sonnet sequence, 78 to 86. This description not only matches him with a high degree of specificity, it simultaneously eliminates all other possibilities. 2., Hero and Leander is clearly identified by the same sonnet sequence as the one poem written by Chapman matching the four descriptions given by the author of the sequence. 3., Sir Thomas and Lady Audrey Walsingham are clearly identified by Edward Blunt and Chapman as being recipients of Hero and Leander originally written by Christopher Marlowe and appropriated by Chapman in the year 1598. 4., The author of the sonnet sequence clearly gives five descriptions of himself identifying himself as Christopher Marlowe. This includes naming himself as one of two poets included as authors of Hero and Leander and simultaneously patronized by the Walsinghams, identifying himself as “dead”, and specifically referencing the motto on Marlowe’s Cambridge portrait twice. As Chapman clearly did not publish his additions to Hero and Leander before 1598, Christopher Marlowe, as the author complaining about that appropriation and the additions included in Chapman’s publication, necessarily must have been alive in 1598. It does not matter what other scholars say about co-authorship of other plays or poems. That is not addressed by the sonnet sequence. None of that is evidence for or against the conclusion that Marlowe was necessarily alive in 1598. Not even the Coroner’s report declaring Marlowe dead in 1593 is evidence against the sequence; in fact it is consistent with the declaration made by the living author that he is “dead”. I’m happy to continue this conversation, but I fear that our host will eventually object to having her substack used in this way. If you register in the comments section of hiddeninplainsight.us we can probe this at will. I look forward to hearing from you.
Hello Peter,
Thank you for the detailed information. I've subscribed to the podcast and will try to give it a listen while I am on a long road trip until early October. I've been very involved as a volunteer in electing a new president, and not too involved in the Authorship substacks at the moment. After the election, I will have more time to get involved in Marlowe research, and the SAQ. Best, Suzanne
https://hiddeninplainsight.us/season-1/
In season 1 of the podcast Peter & Julian go through the evidence for Marlowe's authorship of the Rival Post sonnets in detail - 8 episodes of 30 minutes